I am looking at a "A-Tim" offspring. I was told that no one outside of the US is breeding to this dog. Is this true? I have read that the FCI has pulled this papers and that they are pulling the offsprings too. Is this true? I have heard that very few of his offspring can work. Has anyone seen them? Or are these all rumors started by "A-Tim" haters trying to get studings for their dogs? I am awaiting feedback.
I am by no means expert in malinois but since I found out few things about Atim it wouldn't be my choice for puppy. Something smels with it's pedigree but noone is giving any proof.
Bjorn said he has some proof about Atim but we haven't seen it. Whole Europe is talking about it but I don't know.
If you are thinking about getting pup from them be sure to get as much information about this dog as possible, here on this forum (at least I belive so) are some experts that can give you some answers but maybe it would be better to change your mind and go for some other breeder.
Maybe this accusations will never be proven and maybe everything is ok with it's pedigree but as well this dog could be X-malinois.
As much I seen about Atim's working he is very good in what he does.
First off all i want too say Guido and Heldengebroed shut ?up you are only looking at your way because you are handlers within the NVBK. And you do not know what you are talking about. So you want he prove I have the prove her in front off me . I translate it becauese it is in Dutch. Anouscement: After resurche from the pedigree department we conclueded that the dog from Sir Lopes Joao, has two pedigrees ( from descendent) first pedigree under the name A'Tim NVBK 16241 Br, second pedigree Dovrefjeld Vasco LOSH 0816509. The pedigree from A'Tim give the wright descendent and is accepted by the NVBK. The pedigree with Dovrefjeld Vasco 0816509 is wrong and shall not be accepted. So to prevent such misunderstandings in the future the NVBK shall NOT recognize pedigrees from other Federations due by 01-03-2004, accept the involved federations recognized the NVBK. In the mean time the hiatus in our rulebook shall be adjust due too the usige off fallse pedigrees. People hoo have a pedigree with a NVBK descendent Dovrefjeld Vasco LOSH 0816509 can return there pedigrees and the neccesary adjustmenst too take place too make a corrct pedigree. End Annouscement. Such Announcement was show too me by people (wich names I do not name ) that SH took the other way around not reccognized A'Tim there for Dovre Fjeld Vasco. And this summer i have spoken too some one hoo said too me that his dog is the wright father from A'tim and this dog is U'Vito an LOSH dog the same was said too me today in Belgium at a place where i buy the food for my dogs. This man has an U'Vito son and said too me the same thing that his dog is an half brother from A'Tim. Iff people want too know that and Lopes wants too lets take a DNA sample from A'Tim and his half brother and From U'Vito than we shall see iff this is wright. But you must not forget i don't care about A'tim because I wound take him for breeding, because i hear very bad thing about him that his gives through not character but tooth failure. Dogs hoo are very nervuse and have no calm bite and other things. So there for he is not interesting. What i want too show you is the false papers that people get and they beleave the get a dog out off these bloodlines and the people hoo breed with these dogs they don't care and that a kennel like Dovre Fjeld gives him an FCI pedigree that is what i can not beleave. Samething goes for Zot. And I have seen this dog in Action A'tim at the test for breedingdogs from the DMC in H?nxe and everybody there was astonished by this dog because the champion from Belgium NVBK ring was so bad unbelieveble at the first attack the dog was almost gone he didn't want tooo bite anymore it took him 30 / 45 sec for he did bite and that is the champion from Belgium. It was a joke (not my words people from Germany and other counties(Danmark,Austria and Holland and Belgium) said it). So do not say too me or speak too me that this dog give good puppies or that he is a great dog. Becaus i have seen Belgium ring and there are more better dogs than him and give better puppies.
Greetings Bjorn
« Last Edit: December 21, 2004, 02:27:18 AM by Bjorn »
First off all i keep an open mind and don't like to be told to shut up, never have and never will.
Second please get your story right!!!
for your memory on october the tenth you wrote :" Hello Johan,
I know all about Dovrefjeld Vasco- A'Tim. And you are wright his childeren aren't good enough for IPO because simpley they haven't got any good bite. And they are very nervous. But with these two pedigrees it is a big deal because the NVBK took his pedigree back while this one wasn't right. And the FCI pedigree isn't right eather. And iff this man say's it is allright too use him it cold cheating and he is a big fat liar. At this way the breed is going down. So people around the world watch your self for using Dovrefjeld Vasco - A'Tim this dog haven't got the wright papers all though he got an FCI pedigree. I have a paper that said that all people that have a Dovrefjeld Vasco on the pedigree as the father they must send it back to Sint Hubert but know he has got a FCI pedigree it is sick."
and now you say it is NVBK
For your information NVBK is not Saint Hubert
please be serious
You 're contradiciting yourself
and in order to avoid misunderstanding due to translation into Inglish i would like to see the original dutch text because i have the slight impression that it is partly due to a translation problem from flemish to hollands
You wanted too give you prove. So I found the pedigrees from both dogs Netchy de Mallassagne allias Zot and A'tim / Dovre Fjeld Vasco.
NVBk pedigree A'Tim
Father Rakky (True father is U'Vito LOSH dog) Grandfather is Warre v/h Resterhof Grandmother is Osiris
Mother is Zakarine Grandfather is Tom v/'t Muizebos Grandmother is Geisa du Pleine de la Guelle (LOF dog)
Pedigree Dovre Fjeld Vasco Father is Jeno I de Mallassagne Grandfather is Nardo Grandmother is Dolores de Mallassagne
Mother is Lucr?ce de Mallassagne Grandfather is Quantrou Grandmother is Ellissa de Mallassagne
Pedigree Netchy de Mallassagne allias Zot(NVBK)
Father is F'Galere de Mallassagne Grandmother is Jeremy des Deux pottois Grandmother is Dordore de Mallassagne
Mother is Elissa de Mallassagne Grandfather is Atos Grandmother is Baraka de Mallassagne
How can it be that both off these dogs were bred inside the NVBK and have both parents out off the "de Mallassagne" kennel. Isn't that a bit od. How come that the pedigree from A'Tim is totaly different than the FCi pedigree from Dovre Fjeld Vasco. How come?? And the same goes for the pedigree for Zot. What do the people have to say now? Johan !! Or do they come now with a laime excuse. Try towrite out off this, *SSh**e
please awnser the questions posed without being insulting.
All i have read from you so far are insinuations and hear say.
Like "And this summer i have spoken too some one hoo said too me that his dog is the wright father from A'tim and this dog is U'Vito an LOSH dog the same was said too me today in Belgium at a place where i buy the food for my dogs. This man has an U'Vito son and said too me the same thing that his dog is an half brother from A'Tim. "
I can't find the additional value in the link but could you please confirm that if you would register your dog with NVBK, the pedigree of the NVBK and SH would be exact copies.
It is very strange to say the least that both pedigrees for A'Tim/Vasco are so different.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
No they wouldn't if today i register my dog NVBK only his name will figure on the pedigree without parents etc. I'm not sure that it has to be the same name All this has changed with the comming of this central register.
NVBK used to use the LOSH numbers which might explain the letter bjorn has in his hands (I would like to read the Dutch text to confirm this) THe text he send hints towards a mistake inside NVBK and not the papers of the dog, this interpretation may be wrong due to the translation
THe link i posted was to show how closely Djorvefeld and the other kennel are linked
I would like to end with vive la france sire
WIth the central register in place it could easily be transformed in a pedigree issuing organisation. Nowadays you need 3 papers for your dog his pedigree/ werkboekje/ European Passport (simple isn't it)
nov 26th JVG wrote "A friend breeder used him but asked about the truth about A'tim with SH and he got a mail back that there was nothing wrong the dog was registere as Dovre fjeld Vasco. " I think i know who he's talking about
No word about Sh taking the Pedigree back
Dec 20th Blorn wrote:After resurche from the pedigree department we conclueded that the dog from Sir Lopes Joao, has two pedigrees ( from descendent) first pedigree under the name A'Tim NVBK 16241 Br, second pedigree Dovrefjeld Vasco LOSH 0816509. The pedigree from A'Tim give the wright descendent and is accepted by the NVBK. The pedigree with Dovrefjeld Vasco 0816509 is wrong and shall not be accepted. So to prevent such misunderstandings in the future the NVBK shall NOT recognize pedigrees from other Federations due by 01-03-2004, accept the involved federations recognized the NVBK. "
This is a NVBK ruling and not SH ruling (accepting that the translation is correct)
Both points were not made by me combining them you may state that nowhere SH has taken a stand in saying that the Pedigree is false
I keep an open mind and am waiting for non-contradictary PROOF and no bullsh$t and insinuations
So untill you guys (and girls) come with some evidence the presumption of innocence is still there. No intimidating or foul words will change that Those are the facts
I doubt that the ministry of agriculture will resume the responsibility of issuing pedigrees any time soon. They are probably already overloaded.
In the early days FCI decided to only accept one organization per country and for Belgium that is SH. The problems nowadays with the NVBK pedigree is a problem created by NVBK. They should have backed down when FCI made the decision to only recognize SH. If they would have done that you would not have LOSH and NVBK pedigrees and therefore less problems (which does not mean that the NVBK should cease to exist). But they didn't but that is not a reason to change names when the dogs are registered with NVBK. Furthermore, there is a normal and fairly easy way to obtain SH pedigrees for dogs without a SH pedigree. Obtain a VG at 2 Belgian shows (dog needs to be older than 15 months) under 2 different judges. They receive RISH pedigree and under the current system, the ancestors are listed as well if they are known. The offspring of the 4th generation will receive a LOSH pedigree, all the offspring prior to this will also receive a RISH pedigree. A RISH pedigree will allow you to compete at all levels (including Belgian championships).
Saskia
Logged
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Saskia wrote "Idoubt that the ministry of agriculture will resume the responsibility of issuing pedigrees any time soon. They are probably already overloaded."
pitty
Saskia wrote: "In the early days FCI decided to only accept one organization per country and for Belgium that is SH. "
What about Germany 3 recognised if my information is correct saskia wrote: "The problems nowadays with the NVBK pedigree is a problem created by NVBK. "
The problem is created by SH in treathening to exclude NVBK members en revoking the pedigrees of their dogs (in fact boycoting NVBK
saskia wrote "
They should have backed down when FCI made the decision to only recognize SH. "
Backing up for blackmail??
saskia wrote "If they would have done that you would not have LOSH and NVBK pedigrees and therefore less problems (which does not mean that the NVBK should cease to exist)."
true, but with no written trace of their dogs
saskia wrote "But they didn't but that is not a reason to change names when the dogs are registered with NVBK. "
true
Saskia wrote: "Furthermore, there is a normal and fairly easy way to obtain SH pedigrees for dogs without a SH pedigree. Obtain a VG at 2 Belgian shows (dog needs to be older than 15 months) under 2 different judges. They receive RISH pedigree and under the current system, the ancestors are listed as well if they are known. The offspring of the 4th generation will receive a LOSH pedigree, all the offspring prior to this will also receive a RISH pedigree. A RISH pedigree will allow you to compete at all levels (including Belgian championships)."
Idem point 3 officialy you cannot have a SH pedigree when competing in NVBK and further more read the inscription rules of SH shows carefully and you find that all scores are revocked if you are member of an organisation that isn't recognised by FCI ( due to the way it is stated this counts also for the local soccerteam)
I have written an email too SH about A'tim and they have confirmd me that they took his NVBK Pedigree back and he isn't anymore a NVBK dog. Because a dog have 2 pedigrees is not acceptable. Besides that I wonder my self something! Wy does a man that does promote NVBK is better than everything else and SH dogs are not so good. Why does he has an FCI-dog ? Can you explain that, while than is your dog allso a bad dog isn't it. Or does the NVBK take now FCI-dogs with in the NVBK to make there dogs better. Iff i am lying look at Johan's website. His dog is only and only FCI des Deux Pottois and du Boscaille. The best bloodlines there are. You wrote it, not me! He speaks bad about these fci dogs and he has one off his own, he works with it in NVBK ring, while he stopt with SH ring. This is for me beneeth my level and there for is this man disqualifiat for me as a subject partner. These are my final words about the subject A'Tim. Maney people seen my prove and so the dissicion is at you what you believe or not.
Author
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? And the same goes for the pedigree for Zot. What do the people have to say now? Johan !!
