From what I understand of both the CKC and AKC standards, the only colour disqualifications in the malinois are too much white and less than 6 black points. I believe the faults are black patches and pale colour.
What about black malinois? Has anyone ever attempted to finish one? Is it even possible? I know that in UKC and FCI it's an instant disqualification, but I can't find anything about it in AKC and CKC.
(b) Short-haired The coat should be comparatively short and straight with a dense undercoat. It is very short on the head, the ears and lower legs. The hair is somewhat longer around the neck where it forms a collarette and on the tail and back of the thighs. The colour should be from a rich fawn to mahogany with a black overlay. There should be a black mask and black ears. The underparts of the body, tail, and breeches are lighter fawn. A small white patch on the chest is permissible as is white on the tips of the toes. A washed-out fawn colour is undesirable. This variety is known as the MALINOIS.
this is the official section for coat color in canada....
I think an all breed judge could stay surprised by a black malinois shown in the ring but the comments from the peoples around the ring would be so evident that he would quickly figure out !!! I do not think one could finish his Can.Ch
it looks like only peoples that are interest in working ability have some interest in black malinois !!!
In Belgium you can show black Malinois under the Belgian Kennel Club (not FCI-recognized). According to their standard black malinois are allowed.
Saskia
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If I understand well, NVBK accept black malinois to be shown but are they recognised as a color or just tolerated !
after some reflection, I see no disqualification reasons for a black mal in canada since it has no black patches and pale colour.? but I still do not think he could do his can.Ch.
In a previous message I was concerned of the reactions of the peoples around the ring in front of a black mal shown in conformation ... and again more if someone would stard a black malinois line registered with CKC!!!!"/$%?
and in some ways I agree with Johan (on this forum) who once said something that looked like; "who are we to start a new variety for belgian shepherd "? ?but on another side it appears? that for short coated blacks, the country of origine is somewhat devided....
There several cynological associations in Belgium:
NVBK: issue their own pedigrees and focus on ring sport - correct me if I am wrong but I doubt that they have a breed standard. They don't do conformation
KKUSH: The is the largest association and the only one who is FCI recognized and in their breed standard it states fawn with black overlay and black mask. Fault: tints not warm enough; not enough or too much black overlay or set in patches over the body; not enough mask. Disqualifying fault: any colours which do not correspond with those of the described varieties. So blacks will be disqualified (although if you ever meet a brindled that one will not be disqualified )
KCB: I don't know their standard but I know that black Malinois are a recognised color and can become KCB show champion but this title is not recognised and won't help you any further.
The fact is that black mals are rare (I have only seen 2 myself) and most of them originate in working lines which are rarely shown in the conformation ring so I doubt that this color will ever be accepted.
Black Malinois is no new variety, it is an old color which is not really accepted but which has been there since the beginning. If tomorrow a new WW breaks out (I hope not of course) and 95% of the Mali population is killed, the black color will no longer be an issue.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
thank you for the info.? ?I knew the 3 organisation but didn't know le Kennel Club Belge was holding conformation and that black is a recognised collor in malinois.... very interesting!
now a somewhat hard to answer question...? ? when people in Belgium see a black malinois(the ones who are envolved in dogs) how do they react in general ?
surprised ? bothered? or indifferent ? ? ?
I think in north america people in general have the idea that black malinois is something to hide....? ?Is this so in Belgium or Europa in general
I think from FCI conformation lines you don't have black Mali at all so if they see one I think they will react supprised. The ones I have seen are from working lines and there they are I think indifferent because the color is not important.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
it looks like only peoples that are interest in working ability have some interest in black malinois !!!
This may be because black malinois does not exist and can not exist in the breed standard. Conformity lines are very cautious with their matings and this does not occur ....
If you look back in the history of Belgian Breeds you will find that in older times there were more than 4 varieties in Belgian Shepherds. There were officially 8 varieties. One out of the 8 was the "short haired black shepherd".
It has never been a black Malinois ![i][/i]
If there have been some inter variety matings the black short hair can come out but it can not be a black Malinois ! it is a short haired black shepherd !
The current FCI doesn't speak of color when defining a Malinois it says:
Quote
SHORT HAIR: The hair is very short on the head, the outer sides of the ears and the lower part of the legs. It is short over the rest of the body and fuller at the tail and around the neck where it forms a collarette or ruff which begins at the base of the ear, stretching as far as the throat. As well, the back of the thighs is fringed with longer hair. The tail is ear of corn shaped, but does not form a plume.
The Malinois is the short-haired.
Therefore every short haired BSD is a Malinois
But the only allowed color is only fawn with black overlay and with black mask. Therefore a Black short haired BSD is a malinois with a disqualifying color.
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
I know the standard says that, the of 6 points of black, are needed, with the short hair, to make a BSD a Malinois. But many texts that Iīve read, say that a malinois is the FAWN SORT-HAIRED type. Varieties with short hair and black coat, would be another variety. Neither a Short Haired Groenendael, neither a black malinois. It would be another variety, not accepeted by FCI, maybe in Belgium. In my opinion, belgium shepherds only differ on the caractheristics of coat. So, a black short- haired BSD, should be accepeted by the FCI. It would it really affect on the work of the dog? Isnīt the work capacity the most important thing on a dog? I consider many breeds ugly (well I donīt appreciate them really much). A black mali, as you said, and linked pictures, is a really beuatifull dog.
I have less of an issue calling a black short haired dog a black Malinois because for me a short haired dog is a Malinois as according to the current standard quoted above. That the color is not acceptable for a Malinois from the point of the standard is true. Neither is the blue one.
For me a dog is first categorised by coat type and then you need to take a look at the color and whether it is acceptable or not.
Where the blue gene comes from, I don't know but genes can lie dormant for decades.
There are currently several black and tan long-haired dogs and 1 black and tan rough haired dog. In the Netherlands, a genetisist traced it back to 1 litter in 1937. The mother of the litter was of unknown origin and she produced a litter with several B&T pups which were later on used for breeding. The gene never resurfaced until now.
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