I'm not show man and I would prefer not to go to shows but if you want to use male or female for breeding you have to go to at least 3 shows in open class and have to get get Exelent in all of them for male and very good for female.
I don't mind this rule.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
>>>...but if you want to use male or female for breeding you have to go to at least 3 shows in open class and have to get get Exelent in all of them for male and very good for female.
***What would be more interesting I think is that keeping in mind the standard 'form follows function'..is that if you wanted to use a male or female for breeding....you had to go to least 3 working TRIALS ie., BR I, FR III, MR III, or IPO III, or Herding,? or KNPV PH I met lof or a PH II, and get 'excellent' in all of them for a male and 'very good' for a female'....
***Wonder how many would be available for breeding today? lol ? Hmmm...can we say a practically 'non-existent genepool?'? Yet workability is supposed to be first and foremost...quite hypocritical IMHO....Heck I could probably throw in the OB OTCH (UDX)--although personally I don't consider it 'working'...but the result in the genepool would be the same....? ?
***Hmmm...maybe if we care about OUR breed; we should go back to 'breed wardens' and raise our standards from the historical ones? ?
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
How many 'show people' would be secure/comfortable with that criteria?? Now remember WE are breeding for the BREED....and keep in mind.....'form FOLLOWS function'....I think MOST would go to another breed!
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
The white on the picture Marius posted is fine. You can't deny that there is a lot of white but as long as the white doesn't go all the way to the troat in one single patch, there is nothing wrong
Saskia
***Why would there be 'anything wrong'...IF the dog can work...then a spot or patch on throat is secondary to workability isn't it???
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
>>I suppose that if you don't have any intentions whatsoever to use the dog for breeding in the future it doesn't matter if it has too much white on the chest or leg, if it doesn't bother your own eye.
But if you consider using the pup for breeding in the future if it turns out to be of breeding quality mentally, then it would not be appropriate to choose a blue puppy, or one that has too much white according to the breeding standrad.
***I think there are facts to dispute this...My own dog 'Tyr' didn't take the 'white' off his sire 'Elgos'--in fact he has NONE...and he didn't produce the white that Elgos had....in his own pups....And Tyr's grandchildren...most have no white at all and a couple pups have the size of a nickle...
***I believe Kadi's old dog 'Enzo' had a white CHEST...and he produced conformation/Ch. dogs and working dogs...They also didn't carry nearly (or any) his amount of 'white'....
***Wonder how one explains this? I think it's important not follow the 'rest of the herd' blindly...
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
Quote:Wonder how one explains this??? I think it's important not follow the 'rest of the herd' blindly...
Yes, but this is NOT what the majority of people who breed do. One of the reasons I chose you, instead of someone else. If a white chest was on the winner at a really big show, you would start seeing a profusion of white chests. This is how show people operate here in the states. I know a great deal of them that don't like it, but to win they have to go along.
I definately would take the puppy with the white socks that worked really well.
***I think there are facts to dispute this...My own dog 'Tyr' didn't take the 'white' off his sire 'Elgos'--in fact he has NONE...and he didn't produce the white that Elgos had....in his own pups....And Tyr's grandchildren...most have no white at all and a couple pups have the size of a nickle...
and also his brother (our Ace) and a full sister of them in the VS are not have white or are producing big white chests...............in the 2 last breedings of Ace we only had 2 puppies in each litter with a little amount of white (fine pen line on the chest, just like Ace has, you need to look closer to see it)......
OK so no one is talking, I will ask a couple of questions that I am curious about.
1, Where does the white come from on a mal???
2, A lady in my club had a litter of groens and there were several that were grey.
Are these colors coming from breeds in the past? I know just about nothing about color genetics, but for some reason I have been wondering about this the last couple of days. Darn you show people and your evil influence!
I think the past is relative. It depends on how far you are willing to go. N. France, Belgium, Germany, Holland, and Switzerland are all relatively close geographically. Hard to say that all herding dogs from this region do not share a common ancestor. The question in my opinion is. How many generations does it take for a breed to evolve behaviorally?
From good to bad: a few generations From bad to good: lots off generations
Fear I suppose is one of the main behaviours we humans (or bsd owners) consider as a non-wanted and "bad" charasteristic.
But for a wild animal fear and superstitios can make the difference between life and death. It is important therefore that the "scareness" passes to further generations strongly.
Author
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lol 
? Hmmm...can we say a practically 'non-existent genepool?'? Yet workability is supposed to be first and foremost...quite hypocritical IMHO....Heck I could probably throw in the OB OTCH (UDX)--although personally I don't consider it 'working'...but the result in the genepool would be the same....? 
