Swedish MH (Mental Description of dog)

[Raven]

Hi!

Decided to open a thread on this since I know there has been some interest in this test.

Here is link to description of test, it will give you some idea on the test (one of rare english translations of the test).
http://www.lapphund.nu/mheng.htm

To get better idea of test my advice is to download 2 MH tests performed by malinois.. both this movies are from http://www.ipo.nu (very nice site with tons of movies):

http://www.ipo.nu/ktmllite/files/uploads/video/tjorven/Tjorvens%20mh2.wmv 45,5 Mb

http://www.ipo.nu/ktmllite/files/uploads/video/mach/machmh.wmv 37,4 Mb

^{If you click on upper link and download does not start, it starts loading it in media player right click on link and use Save as target..}

If you have slower connection than it is better to download couple shorter movies from here:
http://www.yngvil.com/Tempo/MH-test.htm

I know, text is something that most don?t understand but you will notice movie links because there are Mb (size?s) of movies written under each link to movie.

This test ofcourse is not perfect but it is step in right direction.

Bye, Raven

[Pete Mitchell]

Two things came to mind when I was watching these tests.

1) Who is the hot blond girl handling the dogs in these tests?? ? My kind of girl!

2) They way you guys dress up for this, I want to go to a Sweedish costume party!?

Seriously though, from what I was told this is the test that determines if a dog is suitable for breeding. I think it is great that you guys are doing something to try to set a standard for dogs to be bred.

Opinion of this test is that it is a good temperment test for a pet dog and does show some qualities for a sport dog to compete in a sport such as IPO. But it lacks in the areas of environmental stability and does not test if a dog has the courage to engage and stand there ground from a real threat by a real person.? (This is only an opinion of what I saw and read in the one article so don't kill me)

I understand more now about some previous arguements and opinions. I am worried about going down this path because I do not want to offend my new Sweedish friends. I am still trying to watch all the movies so I can get a full understanding. There is only so much you can get from a video. I will watch them all and maybe later ask some questions.

Raven--? I have to change what I said about the ghost test. After I saw the second test, my dog probably would have bitten.

Again, I think it is great that you guys are doing these kinds of tests and trying to set a standard for dog to be bred.


Christian

[Raven]

Hi!

That blond girl you can find on http://www.ipo.nu

I am learning about this test, slowly, Sweden is not my native country so I am picking up on everything. I think it is good that test is there since it gives you little insight into mentality of dog you would like to breed.

When whole litter is tested you get some idea on what you have been breeding, since one paper from test goes to breeder.

I am sure Swedish dog people will tell you more, I know what I read, saw on video?s and from Raiders MH test. So probably I still didn?t get the whole idea.

Pete let?s just say I wouldn?t want to be one of those ghosts.

Bye, Raven

[Pete Mitchell]

Hope everyone had a merry Christmas. I had to work both days and it rained the whole time. The rain kept all the badguys inside so it was pretty boreing.

It gave me some time to watch alot of video. If all the clubs in Sweeden are like Team Stockholm (beautiful girls that like to handle biting dogs) then Sweeden is my idea of Paradise. What is the weather like? If it is not like that, then don't tell me and let a guy dream. Hoppsan, what's up girl ? (Don't take me too seriously).

OK, flirting and kidding aside. I really enjoyed the videos and the websight. You guys have many different breeds in your club, which I think is great. (big points for the Boxer!!) You are a great looking bunch of people who seem to enjoy each other and what you are doing. That is a training club. We had one like that once.
Team Stockholm has a fan in the US.

I have several questions about your mental tests. The biggest one is can someone describe to me an outstanding performance on the ghost test?

[Hoppsan]

Pete, I let you dream

Well anyways about the test... I've only seen a few dogs doing it, participated with Warga as well.

I dont think it's a test where to choose breeding material because it doens't show everything from a dog. It is though a good tool to use in the breeding since most people test their dogs so you can get a overview over how your litter is doing, was there lots of afraidness or not socialness, playfullness, not gunproof puppies maybe you should reconsider your breeding material. Also you can see how your breed is doing. For example, you can make statistics and see that the profiles for the belgian shepherds differ. OK, it's no surprise that mals in the tests show lots of playfullness, they're social and gunproof and overcome fears quickly, while the for the belgioans "worst" profile is for groenendaels with fears, more groens cant fullfill the whole test than mals, less groens are gunproof etc. Well this is stuff that people know in general but maybe if you get proof on paper from the majority of the population you can start arguing for that something needs to be done quickly to save the mentality for some breeds.

An other thing is that the gunshooting is with 9mm and not 6mm as in IPO and you do it in the forest so the sound echoes on rocks, I get scared by myself always for the 9mm, whick is also used in all swedish working trials except for IPO

And I agree, for working malinois (among others) you should test the breedingdogs by working with them. We also have mentaltest for adult dogs (the above test is supposed to be made when dog is 12-18 months) which should give further support for the mentality of both breedingdogs, but more importantly, their offspring.

About the ghosts, the dog should not be able to sense that they are humans, the wind should be towards the ghosts. Mosts dogs stay around the owner, if not fleeing, and bark and many get really angry. They are really scary, dog cant smell them and they move really strange. I have never heard of a dog that bite them, but maybe it's happened.

[Pete Mitchell]

Hoppsan,

Thank you very much! This test is for young dogs and you have a diffferent test for older "adult" dogs. That changes my opinion some and helps me to understand more. In the US, what you call the mental test we call a temperment test. Most people I know test a dog over a year old as "an adult". Obviously they are not "adult" but most trainers that I know feel they can tell if the dog is capable or worth continuing with at that age. I do.

Do you know of where I could see a test for the older dogs? That would be great. I was told that this test was a breeding stock test and that if a dog did not pass they would not be able to get registration papers. Does anyone know if that is true or not? If a dog confidently bit the ghost on the ghost test( I know and have seen dogs that would probably do so) would they then fail that testt and not be recommended for breeding?

Thanks again for the response. This test is very interesting to me and I would like to learn more if anyone has any info to add.

Christian

[Hoppsan]

Well the purpose of doing the test when the dogs are young is that they havent learned too many situations yet and by that way it might give a better picture of the "true" mentality of the dog. The problem is that dogs are more or less in a strange teenage period and maybe overreact and are more sensitive than they would have ben younger or older. The test only describes what the dog do in different situations and does not give any points or so. It can't be failed but you may finish it before making the whole test if the dog gets too nervous or I suppose it it bites someone.

The adult test for 2-4 year olds gives points and tries to describe your dogs personality. I have never seen a whole adult mentaltest, hoping to do one with Warga in a couple of months, since it's her 3rd birth day today

None of the tests says anything about it the dog is appropriate for breeding or not, that is up to everyone to decide, how much value they put into these tests and what scores they want where. The adult test you can pass or fail but just because a dog passes doesnt make it a good breedingdog. Anyways, I dont think that a dog that bites the ghosts are banned for breeding, they write a report to the kennel club and then I dont know what happens. Suppose that mostly when a dog bites an other dog seriously or bites a person during a trial they are not allowed to participate in any trials for some time.

Anyways, the mental tests are made for all working dog breeds, collies, gsd, rottweilers etc and in the MH (young dog) there is a huge amount of other breeds like poodles, retrievers, rhodesian rhidgebacks etc that also participate. So it's not only for bsd

[Pete Mitchell]

Thanks for the reply. I appreciate you trying to help me learn more about how things are done in your country. I hold true to my inital opinion of the test but now understand that the people of Sweden believe in bringing a dog along more slowly and don't expect as much from a younger dog.

Good luck with your test with Warga! Maybe you can share the results. If you come across any info or video of the adult mental test I would greatly appreciate it.

My computer time is limited at the moment. So I gotta make this quick. Again thanks for the reply. I appreciate the information. I will ask more later.

Go Team Stockholm!!