It's interesting to see the different views on this. If you look aroud Europe, you'll find almost 2 different types of Belgian Shepherd... the ones that come from pure working homes and that are bred purely for their work drive and temperament, on the other extreme Belgians who look precisely like the breed standard should but don't work or herd..they just show. Those who breed must live on a knife edge..do they breed a dog who is too long in back, no mask etc, but is ace at working or do they breed a real beauty, who drive and work ability are non existant. Depends on what your goal is, I guess
Besides the 2 types of dogs you are referring to, I think there are lot of show dogs who do very well in sports like obedience and agility (also working dogs in my opinion) and there are also dogs presented at shows who are normally working dogs out of working lines. At the Winner Show in Amsterdam the winning Mal was a working dog. So it doesn't necessarily be either one or the other I think.
I agree with Suzanne. The best Terv in Belgium at the moment is a dog trained for IPO, has obtained his working test and they are working towards the title Belgian Working Champion. The breeder always wanted a combination of both.
Yentos himselve has practiced several disciplines including Belgian Ring. Since he is my first dog I wanted to practice as many disciplines as possible to know what disciplines I like. I know that now.
The dogs who are currently competing regularly in show are all dogs who work (most Terv males even train(ed) IPO or Ring). It is just how you define work.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
The only thing they told me is that they are working towards a working title. He has his working certificate (obedience, tracking like in IPO, agility and biting like in ring). I know the owners are training in IPO. The breeder of Amigo used to train Belgian Ring with her dogs but she stopped doing it.
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
Why not shows? The type now created in showpurpose only is actually not the type of breed standard, and I don't care how many showjudges knows better. Just the measurement tape in your hand and you can easily prove them wrong. I have seen dogs winning shows with limbing, without fur, underbite, biting judges, scared, no stop, arched back, you name it. But still BSD should maintain it's type. The type with all the best qualities for a dog still capable for work is essential for this breed. Type is not the same as looks, that should be understood. Type consists the most essential of the breed, and also all the qualities, which were and still are the basis of the healthy construction of the body, enough bones for muscles to attach and enough angulations to make the speed and fast turns possible. That you don't see in showrings anymore. Also when workinglines lose these qualities, when only bitework is considered in breeding, the result is seen in health - I just picked a lineup of pictures of spondylotic dogs: all too long in back, minimal angulations in front and most of them also with very small ribcage and backline like poorly built bridge. I understand that with working dogs looks don't matter, but I believe the type should - healthy type. If the ears are like dumbo's, who cares?
I go for shows, still. I want to see, what is going on in breed, and in Finland shows are excellent place to see an overwiew of the dogs family - in Finland breeders often have meetings in the shows and with a bit of luck especially specialty's are good place to see the quality (or catastrophy) of the breed. In competitions it is rare that even 2 dogs from the same litter are there at the same time (in Finland). Also in Finland and Sweden we are lucky to have our scandinavian trials, tracking, search and signal on the side of IPO. Not all the real work happens in IPO's 5+5+5 minutes, we train our dogs to search lost people and those searches migh last hours. The latest worker, showterv, was tracking a deer after car accident. Those results counts in breeding, too.
I even present my dogs in shows and that is mainly for fun. Eventhough the result in shows is mandatory in cheaper registration prices in Finland, I don't consider the result remarkable in my breeding plans. Of course, if dog is healthy, typical, WCH and showchampion, it is not bad. But if it is showchampion of nowadays looks, I'll pass it. To reminders, here is my aim in type: Willy de la Garde Noire, born 1948
And after Boris I also know, what I want from characterside. Just don't quite know, how to get there. Yet. But I am working on it? I tell you the results after 10 years, maybe?
J
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Coffee and love are something you just can't warm up again.
Willy would still be able to win today (nice picture by the way, will you send it to me???).
The problem is that many showjudges don't know better as they are multibreed judges. This kind of judge is "better value for money" for the organisers because the more breeds a judge can judge the less judges they need, the cheaper that cost is. Some of them are so scared of a dog that they will not touch the dog, how can they fell what is beneath an abundant coat.
The only shows I have entered with Yentos and got a judge who could only judge BSD was the shows where Eric Desschans was the judge (and he is Yen's breeder). I asked him last weekend why he decided to only judge BSD and not any other breed, he answered that he didn't want to make the same stupid mistakes as many judges make when they judge BSDs.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
In Finland it is not allowed to show your dog in show to judge who is the breeder of the dog. Breeder is not even allowed to be secretary in the ring, where breeders dogs are to be judged and that is only fair to all. Also in Finland our all-rounders are much more fair and seem to know breed better than these so called special judges. Like Kari J?rvinen is well known and highly valued judge all around the world and keeps his strickt line no matter who is the dog and who is the handler. Also swedish judges hold their line pretty well. (Lyrholm and Str?m these as good examples) But for instance one year in our specialty BOB-dog was changed in the middle of BIS-ring, which tells something about judging quality and also biting, aggressive and limbing dogs have been winning with these specialjudges (not Desschans anyway at least so that I'd remember it during these my almost 20 years with tervs)One year all the placed dogs didn't even allowed the judge to touch them, but still they were qualified as excellents. And yes, special judge. This is why I don't value showresults. Of course I am happy when my dogs get excellant. Also when special judge gave excellant to Esquintla with clear and undeniable underbite. And the judge even said that it is ALLOWED! because teeth has contact! The same judge gave disq. to Nelli, who most certainly doesn't have an underbite! Also my friends dog is very elegant, big, deep red male, with horrible front movements and no angulations! Special judge saw nothing wrong with the angulations and movements, but said that dog is not elegant! This year excellent was given to an adult terv male, with 5 cm tall ears! Those are not even ears anymore, and the dog looked like an alien! One judge didn't place the open class winning bitch at all - just because it came from wrong kennels and in Europe there was mess going around at that time. And I have translated thousands of judgements of finnish dogs and read Berger Belge from cover to cover over 10 years, so I have some picture, what is going on in shows.
I can assure you that shows are now merely an entertainment than for breeding. I go there to see the overall quality of the line I'd like to use. Also I check carefully temperaments, approacheness, and type of dogs, also those I try to avoid. But I never look the colour of the ribbon, because it doesn't tell a thing.
Willy would go on finely in shows, because picture of him is (or at least should be)in every tervlovers retina. But if he'd be placed still well, why isn't his type valued anymore? This head is flawless with anglemeter and measurement tape. Also that is what several specialjudges has written in judgement. And in the next sentence they say that it has not enough elegance. So what we and they want to see is not what is really needed to see. We change the breed standard according the fashion, also dogs then. And there goes the very basis of the shows. Oh, Nepo had her qualificating showresults even without elegance, and was marvellous producer, so I don't have to worry about her results. And she is dead for several years ago, so thats about the showing anyway...
Willy's picture is copyright from kennel Eubar and used under permission. You can copy it from my site, but please mention that it is from Eubar.
Jenni
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Coffee and love are something you just can't warm up again.
Also in Finland our all-rounders are much more fair and seem to know breed better than these so called special judges.
I wish I could say the same here. I have had a judge who based his desicion for Best Male and BOB on the arch of the neck. Never mind that the other dog's gait was not good because of angulation problems or that he was not really approachable.
I got once a comment that Yentos' fauve was too red because the charbonn? is less visible on a deeper red dog than a lighter red dog and he didn't like that.
The last show I did, the guy just checked the front teeth. He could have never noticed that a dog was missing teeth.
Yentos does well under both specialty judges and all-rounder judges from all countries over the world although he also gets the comment that he isn't elegant enough but for me that is in the eye of the beholder and was even demerited for that.
What character is concerned, you are right. They have been and are still judging too light on that. Yentos has his sociability certification (the test took in total about 2 hours) and I hope that the law gets passed that all dogs in Belgium and especially the dogs used for breeding need to pass such a test before they are used for breeding or competition in any discipline. This means not only for SH dogs but for all dogs.
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
"I got once a comment that Yentos' fauve was too red because the charbonn? is less visible on a deeper red dog than a lighter red dog and he didn't like that."
I want to send one face to that judge: Tervueren should be red and red is red not "kinda-something-like-brownish-underpants-color". That judge should read the breed standart. There it is quite clearly said that red should be red. If dog is not red enough it shouldn't get excellent. And what is too red...? I can not imagine that.
Author
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Some of them are so scared of a dog that they will not touch the dog, how can they fell what is beneath an abundant coat.
This year excellent was given to an adult terv male, with 5 cm tall ears! Those are not even ears anymore, and the dog looked like an alien! 
