I just noticed this thread. Yes, Patrick Dubois and Contes D'Hoffman kennels are in France. From the little I know his current line of dogs (sired from Stan, out of Rambo) are known for hard character. Small and agile? No, in fact they are very large, heavy boned and very strong. We just imported two puppies both are very red, HUGE and very powerful.
My girl Atta is fast but not agile. She is a powerhouse and very determined. If she dedcides she is going to bite you, you will not change her mind. At three months she is very active, good grips, possesive with toys, very domineering over other dogs (but not aggressive, just takes their stuff). She is socially stable but a bit independent. Loves to eat, quick for the obedience and will chase and grab anything you throw (we are working on the bringing it back part).
My friend has an older male (10 months) from the same lines who is just super. He has most of the Fr 3 foundation is is a biting fool. He also is very big (and blue!)
You forgot Atta's brother :-)? Who is the biggest, heaviest boned pup I have ever seen in my life.? This pup has a chest bigger than some adults, at 3.5 months.? Excellent temperament, biting fool.
They are producing a lot of blue dogs, not IMO a reason to not consider a good dog, but something to be aware of.
The "blue" comes from Stan. Stan comes from the NVBK and was owned by a friend of ours. Gives very sporty dogs. Good grips, adore working but very handler sensitive.
I wonder if the handler sensitivity is coming from the females? Or if it can be overcome depending on who he's bred to? Granted they are young, but the 3 Stan offspring I have seen are not what I would consider handler sensitive at all.
Funny, I know that my friend Philippe Belloni would not be attracted to handler sensitive dogs. As a matter of fact he commented that they had to be very harsh just to keep Stan under control. None of the three pups are a bit handler sensitive. I am not an easy handler on a dog and I can promise you my puppy bitch is HARD. I breed Malinois and prefer rather handler sensitive dogs. This is not an example a sensitive dog toward anything. Reports from others who have seen Stan and his offspring do not indicate handler sensitive.
I also do not think my girl will be sporty. She has a very domineering personality and a nasty temper. I can only hope she will be sporty! My current dog is an awesome competetion dog and I am looking for my next trial dog. My guess is, this bitch is not the one (but if she continues on this path she will make a great addition to our breediing program.)
Funny, how different the reports are. To hear that Stan produces small, fast sporty dogs and to have three of his offspring who are large, strong and hard (for their age) is a bit odd.
At just shy of forty pound at just under 4 months...Atta is not a small agile dog
We know Stan almost as well as our own dogs since he was a pup so no one has to tell me what he is like, believe me
He had a very good grip and did very good object guards. Fast dog that loved to work. Bad jumper. Never titled because he didn't do the stopped attack and didn't jump the large ditch. I hear stories now that he is a monster and no one can touch him and this makes me wonder , because he wasn't a difficult dog with strangers on the field at all. Very honest to his handler also.
There have been a lot of breedings with him in Belgium before he was sold to France and he always produced the same type of dog with different lines of females. They weren't small over here either. Nice size, mostly good mask. Sometimes produced blue. Easy dogs to work but you have to be careful with them (not too hard to "our" standards I mean then and not too much stress). If you had a dog from Stan and he jumped, then you had a very good dog for French Ring. Control often was an issue because you couldn't be too hard on them. That's why some did very good in Cat3 but got control problems afterwards.
one of the three pups are a bit handler sensitive. I am not an easy handler on a dog and I can promise you my puppy bitch is HARD
With all respect, but how can you possibly say from a 4mths old pup that she is "hard" and "not handler sensitive". What did she have to take already? A pup is "nice" and "outgoing" and "independant" ok, but "hard" She may be a very promising puppy but if she's hard you'll see when she has to take pressure and still perform.
I think the meaning we put to these words is a "bit" different , because then all the pups I see over here are "hard".
In general, malinois puppies are expected to be biting fools by 8-12 weeks old But one can't really tell how hard this puppy can handle pressure later in its training, especially when trying to squeeze for those few extra points.
I also have noticed that people in different countries understand charasteristic "hard" and "soft" differently.
If I have understood right, in Germany people say that dog is hard, if he is strong in his defence work and has good aggression, is not scared of threath etc. This I think because in DMC K?rung test they give a degree of dogs hardness regarding how it makes defence work.
Here in Finland we concider hard dog such, that can take a lot of negative things, punishments etc. without taking preasure of it, or not remembering negetive things too easily and this has nothing to do with drives.
Here in Finland we concider hard dog such, that can take a lot of negative things, punishments etc. without taking preasure of it, or not remembering negetive things too easily and this has nothing to do with drives.
here in sweden the same, and a soft dog is one that remembers stuff well, like negative things. And a soft dog remembers positive things better of course aswell so it makes it easier to train at least for sports with not much pressure or negative memories for the dog.
But in the everyday talk we also often interpret a soft dog as a dog that obeys and wants to please the master and that easily gets scared and a hard dog as a kind of "stubborn" dog that doesnt "learn his lesson" and puts him against his master. This is kind of the way normal swedish dogowners mean with hard and soft in extremes, many people are not aware of the etological meanings of the words that are used at mental descriptions.
Yes, here in the states, I think 'hard' has come to mean 'insensitive' to the handler. It has evolved over the years. For me, I have always used the word 'tractability' instead of the word 'hard'. Tractability refers to a dog's ability to overcome or 'forget' negative experiences.
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, because he wasn't a difficult dog with strangers on the field at all. Very honest to his handler also.
But one can't really tell how hard this puppy can handle pressure later in its training, especially when trying to squeeze for those few extra points. 
