It's shouldn't be about OPINIONS -- it should be about FACTS.
And I'm not at all angry. I really couldn't care less and am not interested in people's opinions.
I'm ONLY interested in FACTS!!!
If you want to breed on some kind of scientific basis you need to know FACTS -- not OPINIONS!!!
The FACT is the Malinois is in really EXCELLENT condition and has lliterally wiped the floor with the German Shepherd worldwide, while the Groenendaels and Tervuerens have become a JOKE, which doesn't make me at all happy!!! Where are the days when a Groenendal like JULES DE MOULIN was THE top working dog in the world!? For my part I wish we could have Groenendaels and Tervuerens like this again....
And let's not forget the "ugly" Laekenois, which has all but died out and about which there has not yet been a single post on your board....
All varieties of BSDs have been mixed with other breeds during the course of the past century, so there is NO SUCH THING AS A PUREBRED BELGIAN SHEPHERD DOG.
GSD breeders in Germany have been using Malinois in a vainglorious attempt to fix the problems with the GSD for over 5O years. So most of the so-called "working line" sable coloured GSDs have at least one "zwarte piet" (i.e. MALINOIS [as well as DUTCH shepherd]) in the woodpile...
All this BULLSHIT about so-called "purebred" dogs is simply laughable and ridiculous...
Christian
« Last Edit: December 30, 2004, 04:18:18 AM by strombouts »
Hm, than I am affraid you came to wrong place since people are always writting on their opinions.
You are not angry?
First you come here and display your war colours talking what ever you like, insulting people, talking about closing forum and don?t know what else.
Than you go and fix your posts so they wouldn?t look too insulting.
Than you are the smartest person that walked the earth regarding belgian shepherds. Ofcourse you don?t care for other peoples opinion but yours.
You tell at least 60 people here that their dogs are jokes and so on.
You probably wish by now that people would be like sheep folowing your leed, sorry maybe somewhere else..
I can only tell you to leave this forum and go on working forums and enlighten people there although even there I doubt you will do any change.
When you have calmed down a little I thought we will maybe learn something, see what you mean, understand your opinion but no you are still cocky and the smartest person on the world. You are only doing damage to working people with your smart remarks.
This forum was ment for all BSD owners, kennels, lovers to bring us closer not to devide us and make even bigger differences.
In your writting I can only see all show people and all who do not agree with you in front of a wall shot.
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong. ~Dandemis
"Hm, than I am affraid you came to wrong place since people are always writting on their opinions."
I rest my case!!!
Your argument is based on OPINION and EMOTION, while those who are a little more level headed -- not to mention knowledgeable -- would prefer to base theirs on FACTS...
If you have a problem with members editing their posts you should disable this function.
I edit my posts mainly to correct spelling, ad emphasis (BOLD FACE), and ad links that might be useful to other members who are more interested in FACTS than OPINION....
And you are really quite good at being insulting yourself...
Cheers for now
Christian
« Last Edit: December 30, 2004, 04:46:23 AM by strombouts »
Well our debate finishis here.. I will not debate anymore about this since you are intitled to your opinion and I am to mine.
About editing posts:
I understand that someone can make a misstake and than fix it I see no problem in that, the other thing is if someone is adding sentances, changing words and so on.
The function stays on, there is no point of closing it for everyone if you feel like you have to change posts. It adds to your credibility too.
We are leaving you alone for now, not banning you and so on but when you will start insulting others and again start using words that are not appropriate for this forum you will be banned.
I wish you a happy new year and keep enjoying this forum!
Bye, Raven
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong. ~Dandemis
I know that the BSD long haired variety is not as pure as we would hope. But as you say, this was in the past and that we cannot change. Fact is that X-Malis are still being bred. These dogs are not pure-bred (also a fact) and there for should not get a pedigree, and should be banned from any competition which requires a pedigree, but they do (how can be read elsewhere on this forum).
Everybody knows that there is a big gap between working Malis and the longhaired varieties. And the newer breeders are aware of it and are slowly trying to rectify it and maybe you should start helping them instead of putting these varieties down. Because no matter the efforts these people make, it will never be good enough for you
I myself trained ring with my Terv originating from showlines. The reason why I stopped BR was not that my dog was not good enough. He certainly wasn't according to your standards but for me he was and we probably could have done better if we would have had help from an experienced decoy after ours left due to a difference in opinion amongst the decoys. But 2 Tervs and 2 Laekenois was enough reason for not coming (this means a judgement based on opinion instead of facts). The thing that put me off was the mentality of the people which is so narrow-minded that they are not willing to see outside their little community (knowing you I know why I had a problem with the mentality). If I would chose to practice a biting sport with my next dog, it will be IPO instead of ring although I prefer the BR program much more and this all because of the mentality of the people.
And the following story is a fact:
A Mali pup and a Terv pup were both tested by a BR decoy. They were both equally good. This decoy said that he only had one problem with the Terv, it would soon have long hair. This is for me true nonsense and it shows how narrow-minded you guys are and how facts (both pups were equal) no longer matter when you want to get your point.
Yen was tested together with 3 Malis in a day to day situation (the decoy was in "burger" (civilian) walking in the forest. We were attacked twice. Suprisingly, one of the Mali's pulled herself loose and ran like hell (nevertheless looking at her pedigree you wouldn't expect this) and the 2 other Mali's did fine but the real suprise (and I didn't expect this either since the Malis were better during training) was that Yentos was the best. For him training was just play and now it really mattered. I have never seen him so angry but I know that I don't have to worry when I go to the restaurant with him and a playfull child falls on him. If the situation calls for it, he will protect me without hesitation (as requested by the standard).
I have read your posts (as you are aware) and what strikes me is that your posts are soked with sentiment and opinion (I have no problem). But what is worse is that you think that your opinion is fact.
Oh yes, and I prefer the more narrow heads than the GSD heads.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
oh great, now we are talking...showline people and narrow heads.. so bsd has been working dog last hundred years. and so it will be. who can be seriously intrested in show dogs?
Look guys this has nothing to do anymore with stud dogs ?go and open a new thread under HOT TOPICS and put a topic SHOW VS WORKING lines or something if you want to disscuss something that will never find the end.
Bye, Raven
« Last Edit: December 30, 2004, 04:56:02 PM by Raven »
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Do not condemn the judgment of another because it differs from your own. You may both be wrong. ~Dandemis
Don't get personal. I did it too with heldengebroed and it is not nice. Besides that this topic is about good studdogs and not a disccusions about everything else.
Hello Everyone; I am new to this board and wish to say Thank You for everyone who so generously shares their opinions and experience for those of us who wish to learn more of the individual breedlines of the Top Stud Dogs (and females as well).
I have always found some of my best information comes from top helpers... often; they seem to be able to set aside politic's much easier than breeders, or owner/handlers.... for politic's - we can always agree to disagree and only thru diversity of opinion; can we maintain intellectual honesty & integrity in the discussion of breedlines & individual dogs.
I welcome hearing about BOTH the strengths & weakness of individual breedlines, or dogs - done constructively. All individual dogs & all breedlines have strengths AND weakness... or at least area's that can be improved - there is no perfect dog, or breedlines... on that; we can all agree.
Bjorn, as you have started this thread; I wish to ask you if you are familar with a couple of Stud Dogs I find interesting given your earlier posts.
I would be curious as to what your (and everyone else) opinions of them are & why, or why not.. you, or anyone else on this thread; would, or would not consider them.
From reading your comments I see you like the des Deux Pottois breedlines, as I am sure many of us do - a young dog from these lines I see getting many breedings in the DMC is -
* Totti de la Plaines Cheyennes
... he is a son of Larry du Vulcain FRIII, MRIII, CompagneIII - with lines to G'Vitou/Clip and G'Bibber. The mother lines go to Haggler. I see the breeding to him from Lowenfels which is interesting and I think much interest in Totti in Germany comes from a very good Korung.
- any comments on Totti ?
Another dog with dominant des Deux Pottois lines that I find interesting is -
* Lupanos Duke
...he has competed on the DMC National Team - I think 17th at the FCI WM in 2003 & a very strong dog in the stadium; with 99 in obedience & 99 in protection at the DMC Nationals in 2003.
His breedlines are all des Deux Pottois with 2 x Elgos.
Michael Manhardt has just bred one of the great females of the breed - Aika der Sonne entgegen to Duke.
I always pay attention to whom the great females like Aika, or Alpha de Sauvage Chasseur are bred.
- any comments from anyone on Lupano's Duke ?
Has anyone personally seen these dogs in action ?
Lastly, for me personally;
- I very much like the lines from Turcodos-Stoned-Elgos & the influence on the breed recently of Oscar v Lowenfels x Saskia - thru Clip & Klemm v Rotten Falken.
- any comments (strengths AND weakness) on what Stud Dogs from these lines like Yagus & Zico - from the Stoned/Elgos lines - or dogs like A Desert d Sonne Entgegen, Aladin vd Grafschaft Helfenstein, or Kukay's Vax from the Roten Falken lines ?
I want to learn....PLEASE, for those with a depth of knowledge... 3 words:
I know allot off these dog personal, because many off these dogs belongs to friends and wellknown people from me. These dogs have prove them selfs . All these dogs have descendant. And what these dogs have given to the breeding must give way in the next time to see iff the descendant are good enough. I really would like to know with who i am talking with. Iff you have spacific questions i'll anwser them for you. Zico is i think not interesting because he is sold to Australia
« Last Edit: January 23, 2005, 12:16:39 AM by Bjorn »
Hello Bjorn; I will send you a private email to tell you a little about myself & some more specific questions privately.
I understand it is very difficult to compare and comment upon Top Dogs who are presently competing, or being bred. It is even more difficult to comment on them publically if one knows these people and their dogs. This can be unfair to the dogs and to the owners to have a public comparions/discussion - and can put one in a difficult position.
Author
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