The Femme Fatale

[chuck]

Oh Yeah, I like the Belgian Blood, the dutch is a bit watered down to me.  (quatros, Robby, Joerie, etc.) Very good but I look for ........PITA.....(what?)....... in my pups.

[Chris_Duhon]

My reasons being, we have all the best genetics that europe has to offer. Americans import dogs by the hundreds every year from the best genetics europe has to offer...

yes, you are correct, but it's what we do with those lines when they get here.  Not to mention the Many Americans that get inferior dogs from overseas, and feels like "I'll be damned, I'm getting my money back off this dog, so they breed it".  There are awesome EU breeders who you can trust getting a dog from, Teus being one of them.  I have seen pups he has brought to the states, and they didnt' look like the last choices from the litter,  Though everyone must admit all to often an unsuspecting American wants a good EU bred dog and gets ripped off with a poorly selected dog, that they themselves didn't want.  That person in return breeds to make some money back.  Now what I have said isn't the always, and may or may not be the norm, but it happens to often.  I have a male I am very happy with and I got him right here in the US, his parents are imports but the breeder did a good job putting to gether the correct pair for breeding

[chuck]

I don't breed.  Do you, Chris?  What do you know about  dutch lines vs Belgian vs francais?  I have found one distinct difference post 10 years.  I appreciate your passion, but I think you take too much of a negative stance.  Good dutch lines are out there but to me produce sporty weak grips and are unpredictable. To me the most predictable, strong lines have yellow papers (non FCI).

[workingmalinois]

Hi,

Like Bjorn already said, there are good dogs in all disciplines, so this also goes for good breeding females.

I've seen good dogs in Belgium, in Holland, in Germany (sorry, I've never been to the US, but there certainly are good dogs there too).

I agree that my dream of a character test for all breeding stock will probably never come true, because of the reasons Bjorn already stated, but it certainly would improve the breed.

To me a good bloodline also is VERY important (I don't like to outcross) and when I'm planning to get a new pup, I make a thorough study of the bloodlines of the available bitches.  
Every bloodline has it's strong points and it's weaknesses (as well for character as for health) so you have to think it over very well, before choosing a combination.

When you plan a close line breeding, it is VERY important that male AND female are perfectly healthy and don't have any mental or physical weaknesses.
Of course this makes the selection hard, but the joy of a good result afterwards makes it all worth while  

Take care!

Martine

[Van_De_Duvetorre]

I don't inderstand
If you look to all pedigrees in germany France and Holland and you go back 20 to 30 years all dogs are comming from Belgium.
if you check the book of andre Varlet about the working Malinois you can easely find that in 1993 the 26 dogs that made the final, 5 dogs came over Rusky (born in 1968)from Mr Sengelin. Rusky was a direct son of Gladdy van de purpere heide who was a famous Belgian dog that we also find in lots of bloodlines in Holland and Belgium.
The other 21 finalist came all overMissou who's grandfather was  Sirol ( better know as the Bull ) Differnt sons of Missou became the start of some well know bloodlines like Xellavan, Cibo van mulderhof (Father of Ultra du domaine de cameleon), Espoir du Boscaille, Snap and Cartouche (who where 2 brothers)
In Holland 2 things you have the pedigree dogs and the non pedigree(FCI) dogs. The non pedigree the start is by cabil who's brother and sister carak and criquette where top in Belgium. Other very important dogs in holland Oscar (Berkelaar) who knows the pedigree of Oscar. For those who don't His pedigree name (yes he had a pedigree a belgium pedigree from Belgisch verbond van kynofielen (not FCI) and his name was JALK on father side grand son of Missou so Carak and criquette again and on mothers side by Narcilo son of Gladdy van de purpere heide.And as some people know Oscar ( Jalk did over 500 breedings)
The pedigree dogs there we see the belgian and french influence even better and is much more recent. All Perle de tourbiere dogs are dogs comming severall times over eik des deux pottois and Othar de la Noaillerie (french champion) For the rest we see a  lot of infleunce from des deux pottois bij g'vitou . So I am not really convinced about the holland dogs.
Germany we take a look at the pedigrees and what do we see Kolos des deux pottois mixed with a lot of Lowenfels ( who is in 2 generations all deuw pottois dogs

So people first study the pedigrees  and history before saying things about dogs and countries
Johan

[Van_De_Duvetorre]

About this F 15 female from dod, Do you know the parents of this female, Just try to find out please and post it
Johan

[sculpadog]

Very informative post here:

The other 21 finalist came all overMissou who's grandfather was ?Sirol ( better know as the Bull ) Differnt sons of Missou became the start of some well know bloodlines like Xellavan, Cibo van mulderhof (Father of Ultra du domaine de cameleon), Espoir du Boscaille, Snap and Cartouche (who where 2 brothers)

and this one about espoir du Boscaille:

Espoir du Boscaille is a dog that Mr Lebon bought from Mr Vanhulle Julien. Espoirs real name is Micky.

Forgive me the copy and paste...but I think makes easier to read and come to the point.

I have a question:
If Espoir du Boscaile is Micky... then why you do name dogs like Espoir du Boscaile and Eik des duex pottois as pedigreed dogs above in the pedigree study

Just a question..not an attack !

Teus

[sculpadog]

In Holland 2 things you have the pedigree dogs and the non pedigree(FCI) dogs.

little correction:
pedigreed = FCI
non-pedigreed = KNPV

[Chris_Duhon]

[quoteI don't inderstand  
If you look to all pedigrees in germany France and Holland and you go back 20 to 30 years all dogs are comming from Belgium. ]

[Chris_Duhon]

About this F 15 female from dod, Do you know the parents of this female, Just try to find out please and post it  

I am no longer where she is but I'll attempt to get intouch with someone from Lackland Airforce Base in Texas that is where she was bred, she was a US military breeding.