I'm sorry Saskia, I don't agree.? It's not as simple as that.? Being a good judge of character is fine if you're dealing with 'honest' beings like dogs....But we don't live in such an ideal world and a breeder can only go by what he or she is told and hope that they are being told the truth.? There are no guarantees of 'good placements'.? A buyer can tell you anything they think you wish to hear.? How are you going to know the difference?
Another fact is that MOST Malinois are bought, shipped, and placed 'sight unseen' due distances.? A breeder is fortunate to even have the opportunity to be able to speak to a potential buyer by phone.
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
With good judge of character you don't only go by what you are told but also your gut feeling.
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Another fact is that MOST Malinois are bought, shipped, and placed 'sight unseen' due distances. A breeder is fortunate to even have the opportunity to be able to speak to a potential buyer by phone.
Ain't this then also part of the problem? How can you sell a puppy to somebody without even speaking to the potential owners? In this case you are right, being a good judge of character won't do you any good.
Also from the point of the buyer. What do they base their selection? I would really like to know. I cannot imagine to just buy a puppy with hardly any communication with the breeder.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
A gut feeling is not 'concrete'.? Similar to a 6th sense...a phenomenon...There is no factual or scientific basis of this...Some of the best police officers/detectives/juries are taken/fooled/conned by the 'best'...and they deal with 'garbage' on a daily basis...and you think it's as simple as a civilian breeder talking to someone and following a 'gut instinct' ??
I must ask you this...How many pups have you bred and placed and how many of your? 'gut feeling placements' have been successful and how many a failure?? An opinion is one thing...speaking from personal experience is another...One could be fictitious and the other a reality...
And 'without speaking' to potential owners....when speaking on the phone...what does that prove?? Callers could be from Israel, Africa, NA, Europe...It's like trying to 'judge' someone through a post or an email....Much is lost and left up to the imagination when you don't meet the person directly--and most often these conclusions when based on this are WRONG....Also the caller could be a 'broker' looking for a dog for someone who has no business owning one of these dogs...He'll/She'll know what to say to get the sale...and then you never hear from them or about the puppy again....Or you get a potential buyer that has owned and has experience with dogs but also has a record...how are you going to do a background check, especially if they're from another country??
And I think you jumped to the wrong conclusions on my post...I didn't say there was hardly any communication...but what I did say was that the METHOD of communication makes judging character virtually impossible....ie., email, phone, letters etc...is still not the same as meeting and getting to know the person directly...but often...distance and expense make this impossible...You see how going by 'gut instinct' on simple things like these posts can lead to misunderstandings and incorrect conclusions?? So it is with judging others simply by their email, phone calls, or letters....
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
I have never bred puppies and I won't unless I have a less demanding job so what I wrote is indeed my opinion but it is also based on the answers received on questions I have asked to breeders closeby. Some of them will not put a puppy on a plane to the US unless the owners come and pick it up and take it inside the cabin with them which make these puppies very expensive indeed.
My next question is then purely informative:
How do you then select a certain puppy for a certain owner? Do you often refuse to sell puppies to owners?
For me the only reason to cull a puppy at an early age is health problems or possible health problems.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
I have produced several litters already and I can tell you that I do rely on my instincts when it is time to choose a new owner. I have refused some applications because of my instincts and I was right. The only time I regretted selling an older pup to a new owner was because I had not interac myself with this particular individual and let my associate do it all by herself. I ended up taking that dog back because the owner was a very poor (not money wise) one.
As for communication, people will often dig their own grave when you let them talk freely. Most often then not, I don't even have to say anything because the dishonest people will at a 99% make a wrong move. I interac a lot with my new owners until I am 100% sure that this is a home that I am looking for for my puppies otherwise the pup will stay at home until I judge there is a decent home for it.
I still strongly believe that culling a puppy because you can't find a home for it is WRONG! Just don't breed if you are not able to keep it until you do find a home. When health is an issue then that is indeed something else.
Now I am talking from the point of view of a future owner:
If I would buy a puppy abroad I would do a broad scan using internet, mail, phone etc. Make a final selection and then visit the breeder(s). I would not feel comfortable not knowing the breeder (that is one of the reasons why I do shows abroad so much, it is killing 2 birds with one stone). If at that time money is an issue, I would stay close by otherwise I would expand to kennels further away.
Saskia
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He is your friend, your partner, your defender, your dog. You are his life, his love, his leader. He will be yours, faithful and true, to the last beat of his heart. You owe it to him to be worthy of such devotion.
I have never bred puppies and I won't unless I have a less demanding job so what I wrote is indeed my opinion but it is also based on the answers received on questions I have asked to breeders closeby.? Some of them will not put a puppy on a plane to the US unless the owners come and pick it up and take it inside the cabin with them which make these puppies very expensive indeed.
*****First I'd like to thank you Saskia for an excellent discussion on this
*****Secondly, airlines do NOT allow pups in the 'cabin' unless the pup AND crate can fit under a seat.? The airline approved crates that my pups are shipped in have always been too large to fit under the seat and the pups had to fly cargo.
My next question is then purely informative:
How do you then select a certain puppy for a certain owner? Do you often refuse to sell puppies to owners?
******First, I spend a lot of time typing and on the phone lol.? I ask a lot of questions.? I do NOT sell to pet homes period or to those who have no experience owning a dog with drive.? I will refer these people...no matter how nice and sincere they may be....to other kennels or toward another breed.? Some of the questions will include what program?? experience?? lifestyle? What they've achieved? Living situation ie., apartment, house, farm...is it fenced?? Where will the dog live ie., kennel, house, both?? Structure in daily routines the dog will have ie., exercise, training etc...How much time they can give a dog daily?? Kids?? Other animals? and list goes on.....With some I don't have to go through a ton of questions...as I've 'known them indirectly' for years through various discussion on boards like this and have seen their accomplishments...When dealing with working dog people...It's not like show or pet people...Working people are a very small group of people who are widely dispersed around the world...So most Belgians bred for work esp. in NA are shipped to their new owners.? And after all this...I have turned many people away and refused to sell them a pup.
For me the only reason to cull a puppy at an early age is health problems or possible health problems.
*****I completely agree although I have seen and heard some extreme temperament issues also with pups...ie., fear or shyness of everything....no recovery after stress...I think culling those individuals may be necessary also.
Saskia
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
Now I am talking from the point of view of a future owner:
If I would buy a puppy abroad I would do a broad scan using internet, mail, phone etc.? Make a final selection and then visit the breeder(s).? I would not feel comfortable not knowing the breeder (that is one of the reasons why I do shows abroad so much, it is killing 2 birds with one stone).? If at that time money is an issue, I would stay close by otherwise I would expand to kennels further away.
Saskia
That may be possible in Europe where you can drive across a country in less than a day...But that's not possible in the Americas or in countries like Asia, Africa, where there are VERY few breeders (if any) and most if not all have to be imported from Europe or America.
I have to disagree here to a point...As a buyer (and have been many times)...I KNOW what lines and kennels are producing and I KNOW which direction I wish to go with my breedings...Then it wouldn't matter if the breeder was on 'Mars' lol...I would not change my focus or my goal because of distance.? I would not 'settle' for second best...just because the kennel is closer and I get to meet the breeder.? This focus remains the same.? I will take a chance.? I am buying GENETICS first and foremost...and my research will tell me quite a bit about the kennel and breeder beforehand...I am NOT buying the breeder nor does it matter whether I am in complete agreement on the breeder's philosophies or not...Now this goes for puppies...IF I was buying a finished or titled older dog...Then I need to be able to READ the dog and see its quality myself.? I would have someone 'pre-select' some prospects and then fly to wherever to do the final selection myself.? But I am still not there to 'read' the breeder....I am not taking the breeder home with me...I'm taking the dog.? If I like what I see and all my criteria (for the dog) is met ie., health, performance, paperwork, character, pedigree etc.......Then there will be a sale.? But this has nothing to do with the breeder or whether I like them or not.? I have met many people whom I did not 'take to' but they had awesome dogs.? It's important to be impartial and objective when making certain decisions and this is one of them IMHO.
Again, thank you for a great discussion!
Take care!
B
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"Desire is the key to motivation, but it's the determination and commitment to an unrelenting pursuit of your goal - a commitment to excellence - that will enable you to attain the success you seek."
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