Teus Help!!

[Chris_Duhon]

Teus,
 I believe I know what I need to do, but I want your specific advice if you will.  My mal is starting to slow up on his entries.  I don't ever recall him having a bad entry, but I think the problem may lay in the fact that I have started letting him do to many off lead attacks with fewer attacks while I give resistance with the lead.  He doesn't turn his head to the left or right, which is reassuring, that says to me that he is not anticipating getting jammed.  Should I just go back to straight bungee work and resistance attacks?  Should i just leave him on that until his entries improve.  Teus give me some secrets and when I see you in April we can see if it worked or not .

[sculpadog]

My mal is starting to slow up on his entries. ?I don't ever recall him having a bad entry, but I think the problem may lay in the fact that I have started letting him do to many off lead attacks with fewer attacks while I give resistance with the lead.

Hi chris,

What is your definition of 'bad entry'
1-slow start and hesistance in attack of the decoy
2-fast start and slowing down before biting the decoy
3-fast start and fast impact but not sure where to bite the decoy

There are many different situations thinkable for a bad entry. So if you could clarify a little bit more I could be more specific in my answer and advice.

For now I can say this: work a few weeks only on deployment on decoy without typical ring fight and props. Just deploy the dog and make the decoy run into the dog but then the decoy runs backwards (facing the dog) when your dog is at 10 feets distance. Make it easy and ensure he is going for one target every time (arm or leg).
When the dog bites ask Aaron to do the same as I have explained him when working the young dogs: act shy and be passive...make the dog work on the win only.
No recall... just go to him and make him out very close to the decoy...just make him strong again.

I would advice to keep going with off lead attack this way untill your dog finally gets the feeling of the unassisted attacks. When you feel the deployments works good again, you switch back to the lead and then starts the actual props stuff again but assisted.

Teus give me some secrets and when I see you in April we can see if it worked or not .

The success of my advice is not limited to the dog. We human beings are the limit in everything.

[Chris_Duhon]

I had a success today.  The answer is your number 2, He would start off really fast and slow as he was about to go for his bite.  I had the decoy tease him in prey, then worked him in some light defense, so he would really get fired up, but didn't give him a bite for about 20 min (3 bites in 45min). And when he did get a bite I kept it close, I held him back and meanwhile he was pulling hard on the end of the leash and the decoy came just out of reach to make him miss the first two bites, then in to where my dog only had to take about one step into the bite, he was hitting like his old self, with some serious pisstivity I might add  . Do you think I should try this for about the next week to two weeks, then move him to the bungee where he can get longer bites but will still have to endure resistance. I just ordered a bungee tie out. My other I was using, was all I could find until now, and it was the rubber stretches that you get from wal-mart, not good, I don't recommend these, the dogs hit the stretch limit(which is only about 2feet if that) to fast that if your decoy isn't set at the perfect distance than your dog will get snapped back. I believe that may have some reasoning behind this with slowing up that he has been doing, he is anticipating the hard end of the line. This new one starts at 15' and stretches to 30. I'm thinking to put the decoy at about the 27 mark, and let him get longer bites that way. I think I took him off the bungee to fast, and then didn't go back to it enough. Germain Pauwels (NVBK president) told me they use the bungee all the time on their CAT 1's and as long as the dog is competing.  What do you think about this??

[sculpadog]

The answer is your number 2, He would start off really fast and slow as he was about to go for his bite.

?
This I think is a serious problem which does need more focus on. Most of the times you see dogs start with hesitation in the attack and soon enough lack firm and full grips.

I'm thinking to put the decoy at about the 27 mark, and let him get longer bites that way. I think I took him off the bungee to fast, and then didn't go back to it enough. Germain Pauwels (NVBK president) told me they use the bungee all the time on their CAT 1's and as long as the dog is competing. ?What do you think about this??

To use the bungee is no problem and as I adviced before I think some training off lead would do good as long as the focus is on the full attack and firm grip.
A bungee can be of any help but doesn't solve all problems and never will be of help to make a full impact.
However... the use of a bungee to improve quality and keep the work of the dog at level I do recommend.

The final impact, the firm grip is up to the dog. In this you have to train your dog the way he gets 'mental power'. And here it's the 'discussion' between dog and decoy where in the dog must have a feeling he always will be able to win the 'discussion' especially with hard impact and at last with firm grip.

I think here you will find the biggest difference between KNPV attack and Ringsport: the decoy of KNPV is very tough before the impact but then after becomes very passive and the dog does win the 'discussion'. In Ringsport the resistance keeps going and often improves, so the 'discussion', the interaction between dog and decoy stays at level. Right after the moment the decoy stops fighting the recall of the dog is there.

Anyway... I understood in your answer you first did tease the dog in prey and finally in defence to get a strong attack. But what you obtained is not the real attack which your dog might learn from but an reaction out of the flight/fight conflict.

((_{we make this a trainings item for in April when I come over for a seminar !!}))

TEUS

---^{btw... the dutch translation you perhaps extracted from babelfish or babylon translating tool was very bad. The word translation was good but the grammar horrible. I deleted the post because just a few people on this forum do read dutch.}---

[Chris_Duhon]

Alright, yes you got me, that is where I got the dutch from, LOL
I understand what we will discuss and train this when you come in April, but, just to make sure I explained it correctly to you, I worked him in a mixture of prey and defense, He does great in Prey, and great in defense but I see the intensity rise a little when he is worked in a combination of both.  He has never shown any sign of avoidance during the defense work IE... no hair raising, no tail tucking, no backing up, and no showing teeth, just honest, end of the lead pulling, attempting to really bite.  Instead of just barking at the end of the lead, with his mouth open, he gives good solid  single snaps when the decoy gets really close in an attempt to bite.  I do understand that that still doesn't mean it's not a fight or flight conflict, but that was just to attempt to explain his behavior during defense.  Also, understand that his grip could become a problem, thankfully at the moment he is still biting solid, firm, and deep.  If what I have said has changed slightly your opinion then just let me know, other wise I will start doing what you suggest to try.  Thanks Teus

[sculpadog]

just to make sure I explained it correctly to you, I worked him in a mixture of prey and defense, He does great in Prey, and great in defense but I see the intensity rise a little when he is worked in a combination of both.

Exactly the point.... if you have to use mixture of drives to make a dog intense which is telling me some chain missing in the link of the training of your dog.
Not saying all went bad !
I am only saying: focus on some missing pieces and take time to see that fix. When your dog is complete, all will do fine then.

Yes, I stick to my advice I gave.

He has never shown any sign of avoidance during the defense work IE... no hair raising, no tail tucking, no backing up, and no showing teeth, just honest, end of the lead pulling, attempting to really bite. ?Instead of just barking at the end of the lead, with his mouth open, he gives good solid ?single snaps when the decoy gets really close in an attempt to bite......at the moment he is still biting solid, firm, and deep.

Yes, we are on the same page... I got your explaination correct.


TEUS